#107 - CATACLYSM

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#107 - CATACLYSM

Postby stevsie » Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:32 am

Gulp! Many thanks to Anax for the comprehensive judging and for picking my foolish entry - I hadn’t anticipated donning the judge’s cap quite so soon into my visits here!

Being new to this forum, and to clue-judging, I’m not sure what I’ll be able to offer at the end of this week in terms of round-up. I’m pretty sure I won’t manage a full summary with comment on each clue, but I’d like to be able to offer some justification for my judgements. At the least, I’ll attempt a brief summary, with HCs, VHCs, etc. and if I find I have time to spare on Friday evening, I’ll keep writing. Either way, I will aim to do justice to the many, doubtless superb, offerings.

So, with trepidation, I unveil this week’s word:

CATACLYSM

Here’s hoping the judging won’t be one!
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby SWK » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:42 am

Wow...a toughie. Here goes nothing-

Wreaks havoc, but in my place acts strangely? Nope! (9)


Wreaks havoc = def
MY PLACE ACTS = fodder, less PE (no-pe)
strangely = anagram indicator
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby Prolixic » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:54 pm

Well done on your maiden win. This week's word is a stinker but here's my starter for ten:

Disaster of tiger's cytoplasm being mixed without lid (9)

Def: Disaster

CAT (tiger) + (CY[TOP]LASM) * being mixed
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby axiom » Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:15 pm

I echo the others in congratulating you on your win. And that this is indeed a tough one . . .

Can stay calm, avoiding an unnatural disaster (9)

Def: disaster
CANSTAYCALM = fodder, subtracting (avoiding) AN
Unnatural = anagrind
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby Gazza » Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:24 pm

Foolishly cast clout with May not out. Calamity!

def: Calamity
anagram (foolishly) of CAST CL(out) and MAY
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby anax » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:07 pm

Gah! Axiom's clue arrived while I was toying with a similar wordplay base, but here it is anyway:

Stay calm in storm, stopping onset of complete disaster (9)
STAYCALM* around C[omplete]
Gosh
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby S T Sahasrabudhe » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:48 am

1) Rocked with violence this can make camel sit concavely (9)
CATACLYSMVIOLENCE* = CAMELSITCONCAVELY
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby Bhavan » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:04 am

1. Revolution about a mad act by Libya's leader in Misurata (9) C A TAC* LY'S M

Revolution = def
about = C
a = A
mad act = TAC*
Libya = LY
leader in Misurata = M
___________________________

Libya = LY is in the chambers xwd, but is it OK to use Libya's for LY'S ?
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby phisheep » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:13 am

One's gone missing from mystical ground after state emergency (9)
CA (state) + MYST(i)CAL*; anagrind=ground, def=emergency

From Cheshire originally, a heartless smily cat juggled with disaster (9)
C(heshire) + A + (SM(i)LY CAT)*juggled with; def=disaster

EDIT: axiom's pointed out that it is usually spelt 'smiley' - which would kind of ruin the clue. But a quick check in the OED gives 'smily' as an alternative form, so I think I will leave it as it is.
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby Qix » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:58 am

Ruin start of collection; whip round in lunatic asylum not acceptable (9)

C+CAT< in ASYL(U)M*
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby Qix » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:30 am

Heads of coalition armies target African colonel; Libyan youths sense military collapse (9)

Acrostic
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby S T Sahasrabudhe » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:01 am

2) Mad with fury this can make my cur flay cats (9)
CATACLYSMFURY * = MYCURFLAYCATS
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby S T Sahasrabudhe » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:16 am

3)Violent break must take years after kicking off a great change (9)
Definition = great change
Wordplay = In CATACLASM (violent break) add Y (must take years) after removing A (kicking off a)
Clarification = Concise Oxford Dictionary (IX ed.) gives Y as abbr. of year(s).
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby phisheep » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:41 am

While on the subject of felines ...

Cats lay writhing around in extremes of cream orgasm? (9)
(CATS LAY)*writhing around in C(rea)M; def = orgasm?
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby boxwood » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:31 am

Wearing coat back to front, Patrick, perhaps, returns holding clay, to create havoc (9)

Def.= havoc
Wearing (in) MAC< (Patrick = saint = ST<) holding CLAY*(to create)
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby GymBunnies » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:26 pm

Key calamity no-one wrought about the end of days! (9)

C CALAM[I]TY* around day(S) (&lit)

Key=C (musical key)
Calamity no-one = CALAMTY
wrought = anagrind
about = containerind
the end of days = S
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby Boniface » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:33 pm

A clumsy act, uranium leaks out spelling disaster (9)

Fodder: A clumsy act - U (uranium leaks)
Anagrind: out
Def: disaster
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby SWK » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:20 pm

I reckon axiom's bid will be hard to top...very smooth.

One from personal experience-


Cat scan initially used in reconstruction of my ACL...it was a disaster!

CAT + S(scan initially) used in ACLYM (reconstruction of = anagrind), then def.
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby loonapick » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:29 pm

Rush of water caused by Tom reversing fifty yards - into a river! (9)

Rush of water - def
Tom reversing = TAC
Fifty yards = L YS
river = CAM

CA(TAC L YS)M
Last edited by loonapick on Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby loonapick » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:09 pm

This one may be too easy:

Clay cats smashed on the first of May - disaster! (9)

Clay cats - fodder

smashed - anagrind

first of May = M

disaster - def

(CLAY CATS*)-M
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby dram » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:08 am

Disheartened lady acts carelessly in river, leading to disaster (9)

L(ad)YACTS* in CAM
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby axiom » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:00 am

EDIT: Phisheep kindly steered me away from a cataclysm inherent in my original clue. Here’s a better one . . .

Perversely, my cat calls shedding a pound a tragedy (9)

Def = a tragedy
Perversely = anagrind
MYCATCALLS = fodder
Shedding of a = subtraction (of one of the Ls) L = pound

My cat Ximecaria talks to me all the time. Honest!
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby Bhavan » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:19 am

2. Fatal accident, result of one speeding nearly around 100 mark (9) CATA(C)LYS(-t)M

fatal accident = def
one speeding = catalyst as in a chemical agent
nearly = tail deletion indicator
around = containment indicator
mark = M
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby dram » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:23 am

One for May 5:

Stay calm, Council leader is prepared for disaster (9)

STAYCALMC(ouncil)*
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby S T Sahasrabudhe » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:29 am

A doom come true!(9)
C.D.
Clarification = On checking the synonyms of CATACLYSM, I find that, none of them answers the clue
enumeration of 9--ignoring, of course, specific names of tragic events like Chernobyl or
Fukushima.
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby S T Sahasrabudhe » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:59 am

Clay building in backstreet engulfed by river in deluge (9)
Definition = deluge
CATACLYSM
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby S T Sahasrabudhe » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:25 am

Produce a chemical reaction getting carbon core mass to replace energy for a violent change (9)
Definition = a violent change
CATALYSE (produce a chemical reaction) > CATACLYSE(getting carbon core)
> CATACLYS(E)M(mass to replace energy)
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby raven » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:43 am

Acts calmly but carelessly, having lost a pound. Disaster! (9)

(ACTSCALMLY)* - L
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby sumit » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:18 pm

Tragedy devastates a calm city east of Paris. 1 killed (9)

A CALM C(-i)TY S*
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby dram » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:12 pm

Hats off to ST for some heroic efforts this week to clue this blinkin' word without resorting to yet another anagram. I've been trying too and ended up in desperation with this oddball down clue:

With 60% of supporters gone, Cable tames Clegg ... then inconsistency leads them ultimately to disaster (9)


Take the bottom 60% (supporters) from CA(ble), TA(mes) and CL(egg), and the final letters of inconsistencY leadS theM and that leads to (or just 'to' for short) the definition
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby phisheep » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:45 pm

Caught at a club with lady (originally young super model) and an excess of drink! (9)
C AT A C L Y(oung) S(uper) M(odel); def=an excess of drink!

EDIT: well, you can see what tempted me about this treatment. Gonna sleep on it and see if I can't smarten it up a bit.
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby Qix » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:18 am

Disciple divides dogma discussion debacle (9)

"Dogma discussion" = homophone of catechism

Disciple = L (as in student)

Divides = containment indicator

Debacle = definition

A little contrived, but I'm a sucker for an alliteration.
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby cutlp » Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:03 pm

Bit of a stinker this week.

New display of Yves Saint Laurent at C&A ends in sardonic mayhem, a disaster (9)

a disaster = definition; YSLATCACM*
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby anax » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:40 pm

cutlp wrote:Bit of a stinker this week.

New display of Yves Saint Laurent at C&A ends in sardonic mayhem, a disaster (9)

a disaster = definition; YSLATCACM*

A stinker indeed, and it's good that we should have one of these occasionally. With limited wordplay potential, it's an exercise in seeing who can take the same ideas but express them in different ways. I've been astonished by the variety so far.
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby stevsie » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:55 am

TIME PLEASE!

I have a bit of time this afternoon, so I'm going to attempt a more detailed write-up, which I'll post later this evening.

I fear I may have raised a stink with my disastrous word choice - apologies! Being new to this lark, I rather plucked a word at random without much thought as to the treatment possibilities. I hope that I haven't put people off this week; I hope Easter hols have had as much impact on the submission numbers. If I'm (un)fortunate enough to select a word in future, I'll know better :)

After initial complaints about the trickiness (although I agree with anax that the variety has been impressive), I thought I better have a go myself:

'Calamity' misspelt 'calamty [sic]' - setter gets the sack

Back in a few hours...
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby phisheep » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:01 am

Not disastrous at all Stevsie. Quite a challenge though.

Enjoy the judging!
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby boxwood » Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:56 pm

I have been working all day, only to find when I got home that stevsie had already called time. Never mind, as the clue, which has been buzzing around my head all day, is still unresolved. Here is what I have:

Clay, unusually, boxed in the preliminary stages of 'Commentators against the Super Middleweights': a disaster (9)

CLAY* boxed in the preliminary stages (first letters) of 'Commentators Against The Super Middleweights'
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby stevsie » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:34 pm

Here we go...

A total of 32 clues this week; there was a flood of anagrams (the word didn’t offer much else :? ), with a smattering of weird and wonderful takes on the definition. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed going through them all, though that was partly because there was half the usual number of clues!

It seems perverse to me that a complete novice should be judging between these fine entries; feel free to challenge any judgment I make that is incorrect, unfair or simply unaware. Please also excuse wherever I have made suggestions or changes. I like the idea that the forum be used partly didactically, and so I’ve tried to be constructive with criticism.

And so, we start with the band of clues, where definition, wordplay or surface was decidedly suspect:

TRAGIC

S T Sahasrabudhe

A doom come true!CD

So, here's my understanding of this one, and correct me if I'm wrong: CATACLYSM is the only word with 9 letters that is synonomous with 'doom'? Hmm. What about 'Judgement' or 'Ruination'? I'm not even sure if CATACLYSM can be a synonym of 'doom'! And I don't understand how 'come true' indicates that intention. The phrase, with the allusion to 'dream' seems tantalising but it’s a step too far.

S T Sahasrabudhe

Mad with fury this can make my cur flay cats
Comp anag MYCURFLAYCATS*-FURY

Can a cataclysm be mad with fury? And would it make your dog want to flay cats when it was? And where’s the def.?

S T Sahasrabudhe

Rocked with violence this can make camel sit concavely
Comp anag – CAMELSITCONCAVELY*-VIOLENCE

Similar complaint to previous clue: no def. (unless it’s supposed to be ‘rocked with violence’, which doesn’t work, or an &lit, which is unthinkable). A bizarre and humorous image nonetheless.

S T Sahasrabudhe

Violent break must take years after kicking off a great change
CATACLASM –A + Y

Sorry S T, it’s not all bad news from me this week – you do have a couple in the higher ranks! Personally, I would never have reached CATACLASM for 'Violent break'. It's in OED so I should bow, but it feels like it would more at home in an advanced. I'm not sure about Y for years either. Finally, wouldn’t 'off' indicate an extremity rather than a contained letter? I'm intrigued by the surface - a Big Bang ref?

Prolixic

Disaster of tiger's cytoplasm being mixed without lid
CAT+CY[-top]LASM*

A common domestic situation – I’m forever wiping tiger cytoplasm off the kitchen walls! The apostrophe ‘s’ is not needed, particularly as it messes up the anagram fodder (as it stands – CATSCYLASM). ‘Without lid’ is nicely misleading but it was the bizarre surface which tipped this one for me.

SWK

Wreaks havoc, but in my place acts strangely? Nope!
MYPLACEACTS* -PE

Too much I’m not sure of here. 1) ‘but in’ doesn’t really make sense, surface or wordplay, 2) Nope = ‘-PE’ – would be interested to hear comments on this device – not sure myself! I like ‘wreaks havoc’ though, though perhaps it needs a little extra like ‘one’. How about: ‘One wreaks havoc in my place, acts wildly, wanting training’

Phisheep

Cats lay writhing around in extremes of cream orgasm?
CATSLAY* in C(rea)M

Don’t want to linger on this image for too long! Wordplay is fine here (though cream should probably be creamy in the surface), it’s the definition that is one step too far removed for me. Though Chambers has orgasm as ‘violent excitement’ I’m not sure it carries the same sense of ‘catastrophe’ as the clue word. That said, I’m not intimately familiar with phisheep’s feline’s habits...

Boxwood

Wearing coat back to front, Patrick, perhaps, returns holding clay, to create havoc
CA{T{ACLY*}S<}M – double container

I like the picture, though 'perhaps' is awkward in the surface. Also there's no indication that CLAY should be mixed, unless that's what 'to create' is intended to be. I’m not sure ‘havoc’ can be used as a definition – ‘causes havoc’ would be more accurate.

GymBunnies

Key calamity no-one wrought about the end of days!
&lit C+CALAM(-I)TY* about (day)S

Nice idea with the &lit though the overall definition is too over-wrought (ahem). I'm still not sure what I think about 'no-one' as an indicator of ’- i’. I think it’s slightly fairer than ‘nope’ for ‘-pe’ because of the hyphen.

Loonapick

Clay cats smashed on the first of May –disaster!
CLAYCATS*+M

Wordplay is faultless, but the surface is benign - unless there is an obscure May Day tradition that I don't know about!

Qix

Disciple divides dogma discussion debacle
Homophone CATAC(L)YSM

Yikes! A heroic effort. Not sure 'dogma discussion' adequately indicates the homophone - wouldn't you need something like 'dogma during discussion'? Keeps the alliteration going but ruins the surface somewhat! Further query - doesn't a homphone have to indicate another actual word that sounds similar rather than a collection of letters?

Raven

Acts calmly but carelessly, having lost a pound. Disaster!
ACTSCALMLY* - L

Yes, perhaps these days, even the loss of a single pound is a disaster! Not sure about the 'but', I think a rejiggle would help: 'Acts calmly, having lost a pound carelessly. Disaster!' Or maybe a different anagrind would lend a slightly different slant on the surface and help justify the 'Disaster!': 'in a flap', 'worried', 'troubled', etc.

Gazza

Foolishly cast clout with May not out. Calamity!
CASTCL(-out)MAY*

Wordplay is fine, but the surface is confusing. It may make more sense to cricket fans, but if you’re clouting (batting?) then you should be worried if May’s fielding, not still in bat?

S T Sahasrabudhe

Produce a chemical reaction getting carbon core mass to replace energy for a violent change
CATA(C)LYS(-E)+M

I'm not sure about 'produce a chemical reaction' for CATALYSE. A catalyst speeds up a reaction, it doesn't produce one. And I'm not sure 'core' is necessary, though a nice touch. How about: 'Speed up chemical reaction, inserting carbon mass instead of energy for violent change'
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby stevsie » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:37 pm

CATASTROPHIC: Small niggles with def, surface or wordplay. So many of these were fantastic but had one or two questionable factors that I felt excluded them from the top category.

Bhavan

Revolution about a mad act by Libya's leader in Misurata
C+A+TAC*+LYS+M

Nice topical ref! As questioned in the post, ‘Libya’s’ doesn’t initially seem wrong for ‘LYS’ but I’m still not sure. And for some reason, ‘revolution about’ doesn’t fit right on the surface meaning – it feels like it should be ‘revolution following,’ or ‘after’

Phisheep

One’s gone missing from mystical ground after state emergency
CA+MYST(-I)CAL*

Intriguing surface - plot for sci-fi disaster movie? Would this read better as 'one missing from'? ‘Emergency’ for def. is a little bit tenuous.

Phisheep

From Cheshire originally, a heartless smily cat juggled with disaster
C(heshire)+A+SM(-I)LY+CAT

I like ‘heartless smily cat’ – I’ve taken your word on ‘smily’ although I would spell it ‘smiley’ also. I feel the surface suffers a little with ‘juggled with disaster’ – maybe ‘calamity’ would have more a sense of mischief to fit the character.

Qix

Ruin start of collection; whip round in lunatic asylum not acceptable
C+CAT< in ASYL(-U)M*

Fine piece of wordplay, I like the placing of the semi-colon which makes the insertion of CAT not CCAT clear. Wasn't sure of surface at first, felt it wasn’t immediately clear enough to get top category. I gather this is about a church falling on hard times and resorting to deperate measures...?!

Boniface

A clumsy act, uranium leaks out spelling disaster
ACL(-U)MSYACT*

Nice! I may be nit-picking but 'leaks' seems like the wrong tense or something - maybe a semi-colon or a hyphen after 'A clumsy act' would help.

SWK

Cat scan initially used in reconstruction of my ACL . . . it was a disaster!
CAT+S(can) in ACLYM*

Interesting take - I like it. No problems with wordplay except maybe the def - could you have 'it's a disaster'? And should 'Cat' be in capitals? Hope your knee's better now!

Loonapick

Rush of water caused by Tom reversing fifty yards - into a river!
CA(TAC+L+YS)M

Great story - no quibbles with the wordplay, though is YS fine for yards? - I don't know. Possibly 'rush of water' def. is too far from the 'terrible flood' I find in Chambers.

Bhavan

Fatal accident, result of one speeding nearly around 100 mark
CATA(C)LYS(-T)M

Great idea! Though I'm going to niggle again- sorry! Cataclysm is not necessarily a fatal event, so maybe a QM would help, or change 'fatal' to 'terrible'. And 'one speeding' for catalyst...? Hmm, I think I can live with it since the surface is so good.

Sumit

Tragedy devastates a calm city east of Paris. 1 killed
ACALMC(-I)TYS*

Presumably ‘east of Paris’ indicates the S missing from the explanation – I think this would need to be ‘the east end of Paris’, but then ‘calm city’ doesn’t make sense. The anagrind here ‘devastates’ works on the surface but not in the wordplay.

Phisheep

Caught at a club with lady (originally young super model) and an excess of drink!C+AT+A+C+L+Y+S+M

The definition is the tenuous bit here for me (though a novel take), though the wordplay is lovely.

Cutlp

New display of Yves Saint Laurent at C&A ends in sardonic mayhem, a disaster
YSLATCACM*

Almost in the top category – nice observation in clothing refs, but ‘sardonic mayhem’?

Axiom

Perversely, my cat calls shedding a pound a tragedy
MYCATSCALLS(-L)*

Another extraordinary feline picture - though mercifully not as obscene as phisheep's! Fine wordplay, though the story would be more perverse if the cat were fat! Not sure how you'd work that in.

Axiom

Can stay calm, avoiding an unnatural disaster
CANSTAYCALM*-AN

Like how this reads like a CV for an air traffic controller or similar! Something like ‘averting’ would suit the surface better than ‘avoiding’. I almost included this is in the top category – the phrase ‘unnatural disaster’ didn’t quite ring. Love the concise approach though.

Dram

Stay calm, council leader is prepared for disaster
STAYCALMC*

To be uber pedantic, I guess would suggest 'Council's leader' is needed to make it totally grammatically correct, but I love the ref.

S T Sahasrabudhe

Clay building in backstreet engulfed by river in deluge
CA[T[ACLY*]S<]M

Now this is a different story S T! Surface is fantastic. Having docked points already for ‘nope’ and ‘no-one’ I can’t let this one get any further with ‘backstreet’, though I really like it. Again, a hyphen might make it clearer.
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby stevsie » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:50 pm

APOCALYPTIC:
The ones that made it! Okay, there’s not many here – not because there weren’t some great clues, but probably because I’ve been too harsh in my judging...

Anax

Stay calm in storm, stopping onset of complete disaster
STAYCALM* around C

Good stuff! I wasn’t totally sure of ‘stopping’ to indicate the insertion of C but decided to give it the benefit of the doubt.

Qix

Heads of coalition armies target African colonel; Libyan youths sense military collapse
Acrostic

Wow - good work! Reads almost like a current headline! Possibly wouldn't keep a solver guessing for long, but they'd certainly admire the handiwork, as I did.

Dram

Disheartened lady acts carelessly in river, leading to disaster
L(ad)YACTS* in CAM

Can't fault this one! A suitably tragic story to match the definition as well.

Dram

With 60% of supporters gone, Cable tames Clegg . . . Then inconsistency leads them ultimately to disaster
CA, TA, CL, Y+S+M Down clue

Another lovely May 5th ref. Possibly, Clegg should be taming Cable, but I’ll go with the inconsistency!

So, without further ado, the podium:

3rd

Dram
Disheartened lady acts carelessly in river, leading to disaster

2nd

Anax
Stay calm in storm, stopping onset of complete disaster

1st
Qix
Heads of coalition armies target African colonel; Libyan youths sense military collapse

Not the hardest clue in the book, but one worthy of recognition for the wonderfully lucid surface and topical ref.


Well done Qix! Thanks to everyone for an enjoyable week’s judging which has still been tough despite the lower submission number. I feel there may be many things to query in my maiden judgment- please be gentle! I'm just glad it's all over :D .

Happy Easter to everyone, have a great weekend. Look forward to next week's clue!
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby phisheep » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:31 pm

Nowt wrong with that judgement, Stevsie. Well done - and welcome back to real life for next week!

Congrats to Qix for a lovely topical - can't wait.
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby 7dGunPine » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:56 pm

Nice judgeage Stevsie and well done Qix. I'm really not keen on first letter clues but this one was expertly constructed. I couldn't find anything remotely good enough to post this week and decided it may be better to post nothing than a load of old junk.

Gazza would probably be too polite to point this out, but there's an old saying, "Ne'er cast a clout till May be out" meaning don't start stripping off before the end of May coz it'll probably get a bit chilly again (a clout being an item of clothing). I reckon this puts his clue in the work of genius category.
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby dram » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:17 pm

A fine job Stevsie!

I like the idea of a bit of a friendly postmortem. I have certainly got a lot out of it when people have commented on my judgements. So in that vein, a few observations:

Nope = ‘-PE’ – would be interested to hear comments on this device – not sure myself!
- 'nope' is the word alright. Not considered Ximenean, see http://www.crosswordunclued.com/2009/04 ... art-i.html

I'm still not sure what I think about 'no-one' as an indicator of ’- i’.

Neither am I but my understanding is that the hyphen makes it just acceptable

Further query - doesn't a homphone have to indicate another actual word that sounds similar rather than a collection of letters?

We've had some debate about this. I think the consensus is that it is not actually disallowed - though neither is it particularly elegant clueing

Caught at a club with lady (originally young super model) and an excess of drink!C+AT+A+C+L+Y+S+M
The definition is the tenuous bit here for me (though a novel take), though the wordplay is lovely.

Personally (and it is just personal preference I guess) I thought the def was great. Very hard to make a misleading definition of a word that is very difficult to define obliquely

Stay calm in storm, stopping onset of complete disaster (STAYCALM* around C)
Good stuff! I wasn’t totally sure of ‘stopping’ to indicate the insertion of C but decided to give it the benefit of the doubt.

I think it's fine. You can normally rely on Anax's wordplay! There's a nice article in Crosswordsunclued about this:
http://www.crosswordunclued.com/2010/11 ... ators.html

Good choice of winner I'd say - one of the best Acrostic lues I can recall seeing. Congratulations Qix on your maiden win!
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby stevsie » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:25 pm

7dGunPine wrote:Nice judgeage Stevsie and well done Qix. I'm really not keen on first letter clues but this one was expertly constructed. I couldn't find anything remotely good enough to post this week and decided it may be better to post nothing than a load of old junk.

Gazza would probably be too polite to point this out, but there's an old saying, "Ne'er cast a clout till May be out" meaning don't start stripping off before the end of May coz it'll probably get a bit chilly again (a clout being an item of clothing). I reckon this puts his clue in the work of genius category.



Alas! Apologies Gazza for not being aware of the saying - I'll blame it on my youth. That does indeed make it a superb clue. Thanks 7d for pointing this out and to phisheep and dram for the feedback.
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby Gazza » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:54 pm

stevsie wrote:
7dGunPine wrote:Nice judgeage Stevsie and well done Qix. I'm really not keen on first letter clues but this one was expertly constructed. I couldn't find anything remotely good enough to post this week and decided it may be better to post nothing than a load of old junk.

Gazza would probably be too polite to point this out, but there's an old saying, "Ne'er cast a clout till May be out" meaning don't start stripping off before the end of May coz it'll probably get a bit chilly again (a clout being an item of clothing). I reckon this puts his clue in the work of genius category.



Alas! Apologies Gazza for not being aware of the saying - I'll blame it on my youth. That does indeed make it a superb clue. Thanks 7d for pointing this out and to phisheep and dram for the feedback.


Thanks to 7dGunPine for explaining my clue. There's no need for apologies, Stevsie, you chose an excellent winner. Congratulations to Qix on a well-deserved win - I'm looking forward to your challenge.
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby Qix » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:12 pm

As someone once said: "Gosh!"

Thank you to Stevsie, not just for opting for one of my clues, but for a very interesting (and time-consuming) analysis of the contenders, and for an intriguing challenge in the first place.

Like Anax, I was dumbfounded by the array of approaches to what was a tricky proposition, and, had I been the judge, I wouldn't have put any of my own suggestions in the top few.

I'll try to come up with something interesting for the next round.
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby S T Sahasrabudhe » Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:36 am

Nice work stevsie and hope you will have more occasions to judge my clues.
Qix, what an acrostic you produced.
Thanks dram for your friendly postmortem. As I read your observations on the devices used, I looked for (but didn't find) your take on whether 'backstreet' was / is good enough for picking ' TS '. Stevsie had put this device in the same league as nope and no-one.
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby dram » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:22 am

S T Sahasrabudhe wrote:Nice work stevsie and hope you will have more occasions to judge my clues.
Qix, what an acrostic you produced.
Thanks dram for your friendly postmortem. As I read your observations on the devices used, I looked for (but didn't find) your take on whether 'backstreet' was / is good enough for picking ' TS '. Stevsie had put this device in the same league as nope and no-one.


ST, I think the dividing line is whether you are able to read the clue grammatically. 'back street' can be interpreted as 'take an abbreviation for street, and reverse it' whereas 'backstreet' is just a backstreet. You can't have an instruction and the object of the instruction combined in the same word.

I say 'can't' but there are cases in the UK dailies where the setters have done just that, and they do incur criticism for it. Just because it is a rule, doesn't mean that people do not occasionally break it. And vice versa - just because people do it occasionally, that does not mean it is allowed!

By the way, if I may, I thought you had some great clues this week. Still need to be more self-critical of the surface reading though!
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Re: #107 - CATACLYSM

Postby Boniface » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:43 am

Gotta say, I loved Gazza's clue here. Being an Aussie, I'd never heard of the saying (with good reason!). Well done Qix.
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